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Be open-minded, not hypocritical

A letter to the editor

Graduate student, entomology

Published: Tuesday, October 27, 2009

Updated: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 20:10

David Dawson's column about atheism is an example of hypocrisy.


He began with the statement "Atheists have a singular way of looking at the world." As an atheist, I would like to know what exactly is singular about not believing in god(s). Those who follow a religion exclude other religions from the subjective realm of theistic truth (perhaps with the exception of the Baha'i). Atheists simply reject them all.


His article continued "atheists do make very broad assumptions about religion". In this very statement he does exactly that for which he denigrates atheists. I personally find many elements of religion to be fascinating, many of which I have borrowed in the construction of my own philosophy, but according to David Dawson, "regular atheists" don't take interest in such things. What is a regular atheist anyway?


Next he accuses atheists of abusing science. He alludes to the hypothetico-deductive reasoning that science uses to test ideas, but seems not to understand it when he claims that there is no single observation to support that "there is no God." Mr. Dawson should note that there is no single observation to support the absence of the Loch Ness monster, or that there are no maniacal leprechauns in search of their missing gold. In fact, no absence has ever been supported by an observation because this is not possible. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence for any entity. Is it therefore an "arrogant conclusion" to disbelieve in leprechauns?


Mr. Dawson states that atheism requires a leap of faith, and here he is wrong again. Faith is belief in something that is unobserved and atheism does not do this. Eventually he resorts to insults by stating that the core reason for atheism's "inaccurate approach" is a lack of intellectual curiosity. That is quite an offensive statement from someone who attempts to speak against broad generalizations. In essence, David Dawson's demonstrates his own narrow mindedness about a belief system that is as valid as any theistic one.


Finally, as a scientist, I contend that one cannot conclusively debate religion because an untestable set of ideas can never be supported or rejected by evidence. I will, however, debate the merits of open mindedness and the dangers of stereotyping a group of people based on their belief regarding deities. In this instance, it is David Dawson who picked a fight, not the atheists.

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25 comments

ThinkPresuppositionally
Fri Dec 4 2009 18:16
greengeekgirl, I see your points on how things are.

I get that people have emotions, take offense, have thousands of years of human culture and history to look back on.

I apologize if I made it seem like those aren't the reality. Also, sorry about the term "I AGREE" being something to show my ignorance...I was simply stating that I am taking those observable, verifiable facts into consideration for my positions, not merely saying my opinion.

The main question I was asking, as I see how things are, is WHY.

WHY are these observable things this way?
WHY is there something (a universe) instead of nothing?
WHY are we on a planet that supports life, when life seems so improbable in the universe?
How did we get from non-living matter to living matter?
And WHY does what I do matter (in the billion year history of this something here instead of nothing)?

I guess I am thinking more in the ultimate sense.

Does anything ultimately matter, not just here and now?

If there is in fact nothing outside our material world, then logically, there is no life after death, no ultimate foundation for ethics, no alternate meaning in life, and no human free will... that is what leads me to nihilism.

So, I agree that if the WHY question doesn't matter, we have little to no disagreement.

However, I feel that there needs to be a just explanation for WHY things are how we observe them to be.

I am sorry for the offense and confusion.

greengeekgirl
Mon Nov 30 2009 23:15
JB, you seem to forget that this started with a religious person criticizing atheists, not the other way around. This letter isn't criticizing religion, it is criticizing Mr. Dawson's hypocrisy (ie, claiming that people make gross generalizations while making gross generalizations). I'm not sure where you drew the conclusion that making fun of religious people is fun and games, since this letter didn't advocate or participate in that. If individual atheists decide that they want to make fun of religion, that isn't something that can or should be attributed across the board to all atheists.

ThinkPresuppositionally, inanimate chemicals lack the ability to feel. Emotions *are* regulated and triggered by chemical reactions in the body; this interaction makes drugs such as anti-depressants possible. That we don't know the origins of life doesn't mean much--after all, at one point, we as humans also didn't know that the earth revolved around the sun or that our genetic traits are read from our DNA. Having no explanation for something doesn't automatically default to "Well, it must be God, then." A leap of faith requires a firm belief in an explanation that has no logical sequence preceding. Evolutionary theory does show a logical sequence through the different kingdoms, phyla, classes... et cetera. That is the information on which scientists base their ideas--observable, recordable data that follows a logical sequence. The idea in science is to follow the logical sequence until you arrive at a conclusion--not take a leap of faith on unsupported evidence.

Your opinion of natural selection demonstrates your scientific ignorance. To say "I agree" with something that is derived from the scientific method is, well, risible--science isn't a matter of opinion, no matter what some people may say. Again, it comes from observable, recordable fact. There is quite a large difference between the word "theory" in regular conversation and theories in science; in science, a theory isn't an opinion at all.

For the larger question, why take offense--I don't have to explain why I have emotions when I observe and experience them every day. They exist, no matter where one believes that they come from. The same goes for free will; although it may be influenced by various chemical reactions in the body, it does, indeed, exist, regardless of its origin. As for Mr. Dawson's "chemically determined view of things," his views on atheists are not precisely the offense. The way that he chose to express them is the offense. His ignorance about atheism and his decision to expound publicly upon that topic created the offense. Be purposely obtuse if you like, but even in the scientific world, we don't believe that human beings are unfeeling robots. Again, you betray your ignorance of science.

Nihilism is not the logical conclusion of atheism at all, by the by. If you want a reference point for the meaning of life as an atheist, you have millennia of life that has preceded you to look back on. If I were dropped onto another planet at birth, I may have a harder time with a reference point; with literature, music, science, history, genealogy, archeology, architecture, art, fashion, food, and the multitude of facets of the human experience to study, it really matters very little to me as an individual how the first spark of life occurred.

Brenton
Sat Oct 31 2009 10:02
There is a lot that can be added to this discussion, but I simply want to thank Elijah Talamas for writing the letter and The Lantern for publishing it.
Peace on earth
Thu Oct 29 2009 09:07
I am not taking one side or the other (and I am not going to state how I feel, but I will say that I have strong feelings in one direction on this matter), obvioulsy one side is not going to sway the other. I guess we'll know who was right when we die right? Until that time, can't we all just get along? We will either all live in eternal glory as religous people believe, or we will turn into compost like the athiests feel we do.
Dave
Wed Oct 28 2009 19:08
Thanks for pointing out that Dawson picked the fight. It would be interesting if religious people could make some argument for why I should love Jesus instead of being all, "Atheists are DUMB!" Please, tell me how nice it is to be loved by Jesus or repulsed by sex or whatever, so I can come around to your Point of View. Otherwise, I might start to suspect that the only reason you guys take on the scary scary atheists is to shore up your own beliefs. You know, identity politics.

Or, just put a gun to my head and convert me. What's stopping you?

John
Wed Oct 28 2009 17:49
I find it funny how religious people pose the question to Atheists "can explain the origin of life?"
They want an answer instantly when, in reality, scientists will be the first to tell you they're not there yet, but they're working towards it.
They just say "God did it of course" and that is a good enough answer. They want facts and figures yet all they believe in is what they read in a fictional book.
Joe
Wed Oct 28 2009 16:17
JB wrote:
"So, criticizing atheists is a major sin, but making fun of those with religious beliefs is all just fun & games"
I whole-heartedly agree with him on this.
Marilyn LaCourt
Wed Oct 28 2009 13:50
An introductory course in communication will explain in quite simple terms how we make meanings. We perceive something and we attribute meaning. That is the definition of communication. We attribute meaning to that which we perceive individually and collectively. We adjudicate social reality. Obviously language plays a major role in this. It is difficult for us to have an experience for which we do not have words. We are born into a culture and a language that is ready made for us to make meanings. Our language both restricts and embellishes what we perceive and how we attribute meanings.
Also, the argument that atheists have faith in science galls me. There is a difference between faith, belief without evidence, and trust, a belief based on evidence and probabilities.
JB
Wed Oct 28 2009 12:50
So, criticizing atheists is a major sin, but making fun of those with religious beliefs is all just fun & games?

..and you wonder why people seem closed to atheism?

Joe
Wed Oct 28 2009 12:40
I am an athiest, too. What helps me to tolerate the comments of religious fanatics is to think about the fact that anyone who is not an athiest will burn in hell.
Joe
Wed Oct 28 2009 12:39
I am an athiest, too. What helps me to tolerate the comments of religious fanatics is to think about the fact that anyone who is not an athiest will burn in hell.
Joe
Wed Oct 28 2009 12:37
I am an athiest, too. What helps me to tolerate the comments of religious fanatics is to think about the fact that anyone who is not an athiest will burn in hell.
ThinkPresuppositionally
Wed Oct 28 2009 12:16
Pluto Animus, that is poor, poor logic.
Of course I'm not saying that I am the arbiter of truth.
I am arguing that we need an outside reference point to know truth.
Can you explain to me how that is arrogant?
Ashley Paramore
Wed Oct 28 2009 12:15
Very well said.
Pluto Animus
Wed Oct 28 2009 11:58
"Your offense implies some sort of free will, which doesn't make sense if we are purely matter."
So, if you, personally don't understand how a concept can be valid, then it cannot be true?
You are the arbiter of what can and cannot be true, based on your ability to understand things?
You must be the smartest person in the whole world.
My, you believers certainly are arrogant.
ThinkPresuppositionally
Wed Oct 28 2009 11:42
Jimmy, as to creating meaning. What is your reference point? I am not asserting a sky daddy gives meaning, I am asserting that a reference point is necessary to give meaning. Think of a line graph, any point on that graph is defined in reference to the point of origin, normally point (0,0). Without a point of reference, there is no meaning to logically attribute to the point. The point (3,4) would have no meaning without (0,0) providing the basis for the point being over three and up four.

What then is the reference point for us to attribute or create meaning? This question is what leads me to nihilism (which is hard to live consistently with in our world) as the logical conclusion of atheism.

ThinkPresuppositionally
Wed Oct 28 2009 11:23
Jimmy, you essentially just said the equivolent of the third-grade response, "Nu-uh".

Plus, "we create meaning ourselves"? Come on. On what basis?

If that is the case, then we have no basis for communication at all, because everything is just a linguistic construct. Check out the philosophical flow of history dude.

Jimmy
Wed Oct 28 2009 11:09
Plus, how can you say science has no "leaps of faith"? Explain to me the origin of life. How did nonliving matter become living matter?

And if you say natural selection, it only shows your scientific ignorance...I agree that it explains mutations and diversity and even certain levels of evolution, but being able to reproduce is required for natural selection to take place. And that cannot happen until there is already life...

No casual fan of biology would even think to attribute natural selection to the origin of life. Evolution by natural selection has nothing to do with how life began.

Read more, and not just from what you get at the xtian bookstore.

Jimmy
Wed Oct 28 2009 10:59
ThinkPresuppositionally ,

Take a biology class, dude. You may learn something. You aren't the first to present these strawmen and factual inaccuracies. Atheists are not nihilists. Nobody needs an invisible sky daddy to invent meaning. We create that ourselves.

You'rethehypocrite
Wed Oct 28 2009 09:49
This response is just as hypocritical and unintelligent as the original editorial is alleged to be.
Open-minded my @ss. HA!






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